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1Guinea: A soldier's testimony on the massacre of September 28 in ConakryGinea: miaramila nijoro vavolombelona tamin'ny famonoana ny 28 septambra tao Conakry
2The interview below is the testimony of a Guinean soldier who took part in the repression of the opposition demonstration in Conakry, in Guinea, on September 28, 2009.Ity resadresaka teto ambany ity dia fijoroana vavolombelona nataona miaramila Gineana iray nandray anjara tamin'ny famoretana ny fihetsiketsehana nataon'ny mpanohitra tany Conakry, any Ginea, tamin'ny 28 Septambra 2009.
3The interview has been recorded over the phone and broadcast by French journalist Olivier Rogez on Radio France Internationale on October the 1st, 2009, two days after the Conakry massacre, and published in French on the RFI website.Noraisimpeo tamin'ny alalan'ny antso an-tsofindavitra ary navoakan'ilay mpanao gazety frantsay Olivier Rogez tao amin'ny Radio France Internationale tamin'ny voalohany Oktobra 2009, roa andro taorian'ny fandripahana tao Conakry, ary mivoaka amin'ny teny frantsay tao amin'ny vohikan'ny RFI.
4This soldier testified under condition of anonymity, but his identity and occupation is known and vouched for by the RFI network of correspondents in West Africa.Nijoro vavolombelona rehefa tsy lazaina ny anarany ity miaramila ity, saingy fantatra sy iantohan'ny solontenan'ny RFI any Afrika Andrefana kosa ny anarana sy ny asany.
5Since then, the magnitude of the repression and the mass rapes have been confirmed by multiple sources and testimonies.Hatramin'izay dia nohamarinin'ny loharanombaovao maro sy fijoroana vavolombelona ny fisian'ny famoretana sy ny fanolanana faobe.
6However, this testimony still contains first hand information about the state of the Guinean army, the presence of foreign soldiers within its ranks, and also forecasted the unrest and fight for power within the Guinean Army that has very recently surfaced on October 7 [fr].Na eo aza izany dia vaovao mivaingana maneho ny toeran'ny tafika Gineana, ny fisian'ny miaramila vahiny ao anatiny ity fijoroana vavolombelona iray ity, ary efa nahatsinjo ihany koa ny adim-pahefana tao anatin'ny tafika Gineana izay nipongatra tamin'ny 7 Oktobra [fr].
7Radio France Internationale agreed for Global Voices to translate and publish this copyrighted interview for human rights documentation purposes and will publish the English translation on its website.Nanaiky ny handikan'ny Global Voices ny voasoratra sy ny famoahana ity resadresaka manan-tompo [copyright] ity ny Radio France Internationale ho antontan-taratasy hiarovana ny zon'olombelona ary hamoaka ny dikany amin'ny teny anglisy eo amin'ny vohikalany [ka azo avoaka teny malagasy ve?].
8Olivier Rogez (Radio France Internationale): Sir, you are a soldier, you belong to BATA, the Autonomous batallion of [Guinea] paratroopers, and you were amongst the soldiers who suppressed the demonstration on September 28th.Olivier Rogez (Radio France Internationale): Miaramila avy amin'ny BATA ianao, vondro-tafika mpilatsaka an'elon'aina, ary anisan'ireo miaramila nandrava ny fihetsiketsehana tamin'ny 28 septambra.
9Soldier : Indeed, I took part in the bloody repression around the 28 September Stadium; yes!Miaramila : Voalazanao, anisan'ireo nandrava ny fihetsiketsehana nisiana ra mandriaka tao amin'ny kianjan'ny 28 Septambra aho;
10RFI : I'd like to ask you first if, according to the information broadcast during the past days, you saw with your own eyes real bullets being shot at the population and the women being raped as described in all the testimonies?RFI : Ny tiako anontaniana anao voalohany, araka ny vaovao niely nandritra andro vitsivitsy izao, nanatri-maso ny tifitra tamin'ny bala tena izy ve ianao sy ny fanolanana vehivavy araka ny fijoroana vavolombelona maro?
11Did your colleagues from BATA take part in these actions?Nanao izany zaatra izany tokoa ve ny mpiray tafika aminao avy ao amin'ny BATA?
12I confirm that there have been rapes and shooting with real bullets.Manamarina aho fanisy tokoa ny fanolanana sy ny tifitra tamin'ny bala tena izy.
13On the morning of that day [Sept. 28], when you were sent to stop the opposition demonstration at the stadium, did you have precise orders?Ny marainan'io andro [28 Sept] io, efa nahazo baiko manokana ve ianareo rehefa hanakana ny fihetsiketsehan'ny mpanohitra teo an-kianja?
14The gendarmerie [police] were involved at first but since the police did not agree with the demonstrators, we received orders to curb this opposition, called “unruly” by our chiefs.Ny zandary aloha no niandraikitra azy, fa rehefa tsy nifanaraka tamin'ny mpanohitra ry zareo dia nahazo baiko izahay hanafay ny mpanohitra, izay lazain'ny lehibenay ho tsy voafehy.
15We went there.Dia nandeha tany izahay.
16I was among the soldiers.Izaho koa izay anisan'ny miaramila.
17We could not disobey orders, that is to say, to go and curb the demonstrators, to make them understand that there is only one authority in Guinea, and to teach them a lesson.Tsy afa-mandà ny baiko hanaparitaka ny mpanohitra izahay, mba ho azon'izy ireo fa tokana ny fahefana misy eto Ginea ary manome lesona azy ireo.
18There were so many deaths, it was not even possible to count them.Maro loatra ny isan'ny faty ka tsy tambo isaina.
19I felt faint, honestly, I felt faint.Narary ny lohako, lazaiko anao fa tena fanina aho.
20There were 160, 180 deads… I cannot even tell you how many corpses.Tany ho any amin'ny 160 na 180 tany ny isan'ny maty… Na izaho aza tsy afa-milaza aminao ny isany.
21And I know that during the night, on Monday [Sept. 28], they told us to retrieve the bodies.Ary fantatro ihany koa fa nasaina naka ny faty izahay ny alin'ny alatsinainy [28 Sept].
22We retrieved 47, that have been buried, but I cannot tell you where exactly.47 ny isan'ny nafenina, fa tsy azoko lazaina anao hoe taiza marina izany.
23Did you personally take part in the retrieval of the bodies in the morgues?Nandray anajara tamin'ny fakana ny faty tany amin'ny tranoim-paty ve ianao?
24I am a fonctionnaire [civil servant].Mpiasam-panjakana aho.
25You were forced to go and retrieve the bodies?Noterena ve ianao hanangona ny razana?
26We cannot say no. If you say no, you are dead.Tsy misy afa-mandà. Izay mandà dia maty.
27If you say no, you are dead?Maty ve ianao raha vao mandà?
28That's right.Izay indrindra.
29So, you were given weapons and ammunition?Nizarana basy sy bala izany ianareo?
30We had weapons and ammunition and for nearly a week beforehand, we were on standby.Efa herinandro nialoha izahay no nizarana basy sy bala ary efa niatrana.
31For a week, you were on standby?Herinandro ianareo no efa niatrana?
32Yes.Eny.
33When you were told to curb and to give a lesson to the opposition, were you ordered to kill opponents, political leaders?Rehefa nialazana ianareo hanaparitaka sy hanome lesona ny mpanohitra, nahazo baiko hamono ny mpanao fihetsiketsehana sy ny mpitarika politika ve ianareo?
34No, not ordered to kill the opponents.Tsia, tsy misy baiko hamono ny mpanohitra.
35But a lesson had to be taught.Fa tsy maintsy manome lesona.
36When I say “to teach a lesson”, in military language, you know what that means!Raha miteny aho hoe “manome lesona”, amin'ny fiteny miaramila dia fantatrao ny dikany!
37Could you be more specific?Azonao azavaina bebe kokoa ve?
38It means punish them, usually, without killing them, but to show them that the country is under control.Manafay no dikan'izany fa tsy manao izay mahafaty, fa hampisehoana amin'izy ireo fa misy mitondra ny firenena.
39That's what we were told.Izay no nolazaina anay.
40Many testimonies we have gathered mention mass and collective rapes, exactions, like raping women with weapons.Betsaka no nilaza taminay fa nisy ny fiaraha-nanao fanolanana faobe, ny daroka sy ny fanaovana an-keriny ny vehivavy tamin'ny basy.
41Were you able to identify the soldiers - or the units they belong to - who took part in these exactions?Azonao nofantarina ve ny vondro-tafika nisy ireo miaramila nanao izany?
42They were people from the presidential guard, since the police were a little behind.Ry zalahy mpiambina ny filoha, rehefa somary nihemotra taoriandriana kokoa ny zandary.
43There were not only weapons, there were sticks of wood too.Tsy tamin'ny basy ihany, fa nisy tamin'ny vatan-kazo.
44We used all sorts of things.Izay azo noraisina rehetra.
45We even kicked with our feet!Nisy aza tamin'ny alalan'ny daka!
46You said you could not refuse to go and curb the opposition.ilaza ianao teo fa tsy afa-mandà hanaparitaka ny mpanohitra.
47How do you feel today [Oct. 1st]?Ahoana ny fihetse-ponao amin'izao fotoana izao [1 Okt]?
48Since Monday, I cannot sleep. I cannot go to sleep.Tsy nahita tory aho hatry ny alatsinainy. tsy mety mahita tory aho.
49I only see again those horrible images, those living people, those people killed by real bullets at point blank… at the level… I cannot sleep.Mitamberina amiko hatrany ireo sary mampihoron-koditra, tifitra bala tena izy atohoka eo amin'ny… tsy mampahita tory.
50I have nightmares. I cannot sleep.Manonofy ratsy aho. tsy mety mahita tory.
51(sighs).(sento).
52Everybody killed?Namono daholo ve?
53There were orders, sir : to kill or to be killed.Izay no baiko andriamatoa : na mamono na vonoina.
54Yourself, were you forced to kill?Ianao koa, tsy maintsy namono ve ianao?
55(silence) It is very difficult for me to answer this question.(fanginana) Sarotra ho ahy nyhamaly izany fanontaniana izany.
56I told you. Either you killed or were killed.Efa nilaza taminao aho fa na mamono na vonoina.
57So the orders came from the higher up?Avy any amin'ny ambaratongam-pahefana izany ny baiko?
58Honestly, there is no hierarchy right now in the army.Tsoriko aminao fa tsy misy ambaratongam-pahefana izany ao amin'ny tafika.
59You can receive orders from everyone.Mandray ny baiko avy amin'ny rehetra ianao.
60Everybody gives orders here, everybody gives orders.Manome baiko avokoa ny rehetra, manome baiko avokoa.
61There is not one hierarchy in the Guinean army.Tsy misy ambaratongam-pahefana eo amin'ny tafika Gineana.
62It's a mess.Manjaka ny korontana.
63It looks like organized militias.Tahaka ny milisy voalamina.
64It's been a while since we have been in the army and now, honestly, it's a mess.Efa ela izahay no tao amin'ny tafika fa mikorontana e!
65The International community must come to the rescue, otherwise, I am really afraid for this country.Raha tsy mamonjy anay ny fianakaviambe iraisam-pirenena dia manhy ny ho amin'ity firenena ity aho.
66There has been lots of talk about the mess in the army.Lazaina betsaka ny fikorontanana misy eo amin'ny tafika.
67Could you tell us about this mess?Azonao lazaina e ny momba izany?
68How is the BATA functioning, nowadays, where you are?Ahoana ny fomba fiasan'ny BATA amin'izao fotoana izao?
69Have there been recruitments lately?Nisy fandraisana zazavao e teo aloha teo?
70Are there militias within the BATA?Misy milisy ve ao amin'ny BATA?
71Yes, I confirm that there are militias within the BATA.Eny, manamarina aho fa misy milisy ao anatin'ny BATA.
72People have arrived.Misy ny olona tonga tao.
73There are even militiamen who came from Liberia, who are currently incorporated within the Guinean army, in the BATA, with no military education, no training whatsoever.Misy aza milisy avy any Liberia no tafiditra ao anatin'ny tafika Gineana, ao anatin'ny BATA, tsy manana toe-tsaina miaramila, tsy nofanina ho amin'izany.
74They are really murderers who are currently being recruited.Tena mpampono olona mihitsy ireo noraisina ireo.
75Honestly, I am a soldier, but I am afraid for this country.Lazaiko fa miaramila aho, miaramila aho fa manahy ny amin'ity firenena ity.
76It was not in this spirit that we seized power.Tsy amin'ny fisainana tahaka izao mihitsy no nandraisana ny fahefana.
77We seized power to guarantee the integrity of our country, to really make our country into a great democracy.Noraisinay ny fahefana tsy hampivakivaky ny firenena, hanaovana azy ho andrin'ny demokrasia.
78But that is not what is happening now in the Guinean army.Saingy tsy izany ankehitriny no mitranga eo amin'ny tafika Gineana.
79It is truly sickening, we are scared, honestly. Even us, the military, we are scared.Tena mankaloiloy, manahy mihitsy aho. matahotra na dia izahay miaramila aza.
80Currently, there are more than 600 persons incorporated in the army, elements who came out of the forest, elements who came from Liberia.600 ankehitriny no nampidirna tao amin'ny tafika, misy ny avy any an'ala, misy ny avy any Liberia.
81We even fear retribution.Ahiana hatamin'ny valifaty.
82Since when are you in the military?Hatramin'ny oviana ianao no miaramila?
83Since 2002.Hatramin'ny 2002.
84And since you joined in the army, since you have belonged to BATA, have you seen the situation worsen?Hatramin'ny nahatafiditra anao tao amin'ny tafika, tao amin'ny BATA, nahita ny fitotongan'ny toe-draharaha ve ianao?
85The situation is worsening from day to day.Miharatsy isan'andro isan'nadro ny toe-draharaha.
86Are the new recruits equipped with weapons?Mahazo fitaovam-piadiana ve ny zazavao?
87Did you get new weapons?Nahazo fitaovam-piadiana vaovao ve ianareo?
88Are there many weapons delivered nowadays in the army barracks?Betsaka ve ny fitaovam-piadiana nozaraina any an-toby?
89Every day, weapons circulate in our barracks.Mivezivezy any an-toby isan'andro ny fitaovam-piadiana.
90Those who are recruited and incorporated today have weapons.Mahazo fitaovam-piadiana ireo vao zazavao.
91They are given everything: grenades, weapons, ammunition.Omena azy ny rehetra: grenady, basy, bala.
92No importance is given to the date of integration (in the army).Tsy heverina ny andro nampidirana azy ireo (ao amin'ny tafika).
93All that is needed is to train people and show them the way to the fighting, that's all.Nozarina fotsiny dia aseho azy ny lalan'ny ady, izay ihany.
94There are young volunteers that have been recruited, and honestly, they are here solely to maintain the power in place.Misy ny tanora vonona, ary tsoina fa ny hiaro ny fitondrana mijoro ihany no ataony, tsy manana fiofanana ara-miaramila.
95She does not want to give up the power.Mitady y fomba ijanonana eo amin'ny fitondrana ny ekipa misy ankehitriny.
96Those people are like President Conté.Tsy te-hiala teo amin'ny fitondrana izy.
97Now we see, even us, the true face of this leader.Tahaka ny filoha Conté. Ankehitriny vao tena miseho endrika izany sefo izany.
98Even us, we are marginalized in the army.Izahay koa dia voahilikilika ao amin'ny tafika.
99We are scared, we cannot talk.Feno tahotra, tsy afa-miteny.
100I am telling you, currently, in the army, it's total anarchy, total anarchy, total anarchy!Lazaiko anao ny zavamisy ao amin'ny tafika amin'izao fotoana izao: Baranahiny tanteraka, baranahiny tanteraka, baranahiny tanteraka!
101We do not know who is who in the army today.Tsy misy mifankafantatra intsony ny ao ami'nny tafika ankehitriny.
102Nobody knows today who is a captain or a corporal.Tsy misy mahalala hoe iza no komandà ary iza no kaporaly.
103They beat up General Toto, the people from the presidential guard.Nidaroka ny Jeneraly Toto ry zalahy tao amin'ny mpiambina ny filoha.
104Corporals.Kaporaly ry zalahy ireo.
105There is no discipline in the Guinean army.Tsy misy fitsipi-pifehezana ao amin'ny tafika Gineana.
106In this army, if no intervention forces come in, I can assure you that Guinea will sink very soon into anarchy, and it will come from the very same Alpha Yaya camp (Captain Camara's barrack).Ao amin'io tafika io, rehefa tsy misy ny “hery vonjy taitra” dia lazaiko anao fa ho fanjakan'i baroa tanteraka i Ginea, ary ho avy amin'ny tobin'i Alpha Yaya (tobin'ny Kapiteny Camara) ihany no iavian'izany.
107All the ingredients are there for a clash, very soon, in the midst of camp Alpha Yaya.Efa feno avokoa ny fepetra rehetra hisian'ny gidraka, akaiky dia akaiky, ao amin'ny tobin'i Alpha Yaya [ihany].
108Honestly, I am afraid for this country.Tsoriko fa manahy indrindra ny ho amin'ity firenena ity aho.
109Copyright : Interview by Olivier Rogez, Radio France InternationaleCopyright : resadresak'i Olivier Rogez, Radio France Internationale